Posted by Illuminati on 5/12/2009, 12:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Jesus(peace be upon him)"
64.6.35.162
Amir said:
"I'm not sure I follow the logic here. If some Christian churches used the words, "Allah Almighty" what does that have to do with Islam?"
Some churches are using the words "ALLAH ALMIGHTY" and u fing nothing surprising???Well,i won t say anything on that.The readers can make up their own minds.I don t think i have to tell the relation between the words ALLAH ALMIGHTY and ISLAM.Do u really don t know of the relation that exist??
I'm afraid I don't get your point. It is my understanding that the word "Allah" is still used by Arabic speaking Christians as well as Muslims when they refer to God. Are you claiming that Muslims are the first ones to use the term in this way?
Amir refered to a Gnostic gospel:
Unlike the Gospels of the New Testament, the Apocalypse of Peter (the Revelations sent to Peter) was directly written and spoken by Peter himself.This Revelation was widely accepted and believed in by the early Christians during the 1st, 2nd and 3rd centuries.
From his Apocalypse:
"The Savior said to me,:"He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is his fleshly part, which is the substitute being put to shame, the one who came into being in his likeness. But look at him and me."
But I, when I had looked, said "Lord, no one is looking at you. Let us flee this place." But he said to me, "I have told you, "Leave the blind alone!" And you, see how they do not know what they are saying. For the son of their glory instead of my servant, they have put to shame."
I'm not sure where you came up with the information that Peter wrote this material. So far as I know, the Gnostic material is generally later material which was written after orthodox Christianity had been established. While the Gnostic authors undoubtedly knew many legitimate facts about Jesus and His disciples, I am unaware that any of them were eyewitnesses or were directly acquainted with eyewitnesses.
The Gnostic gospels were written by people who were heavily influenced by Greek philosophy. That is not a bad thing so long as the reader understands their perspective. Their goal was to reinterpret history to agree with their philosophy.
I really don't believe that Muslims theology is compatible with Gnostic theology. If you think that Mohammad was a Gnostic, please, lets discuss it. I'm fascinated by that prospect. That would be a highly informative line of reasoning. On the other hand, if Mohammad was not a Gnostic, then this passage appears to have no relevance to the discussion. If you reject the truth of Gnosticism, than you are trying to establish Mohammad's validity by appealing to a book which you yourself know is not true.
Amir said:
Jesus is not Allah Almighty, nor part of Allah Almighty. Jesus was no more than a Messenger from Allah Almighty: "O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say Of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah, (The Noble Quran, 4:171)"
Perhaps, this is the point at which Muslims and Christians must agree to disagree, or perhaps not. Jesus Himself, said the following:
John 14:28-30 NIV
28 "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe.
Jesus repeatedly called God His father, and repeatedly called Himself God's son. This is a pattern which is recorded in numerous places in the gospels.
Are Jesus' sayings compatible with this passage in the Koran. That is up to the Muslims to decide. If the Muslims wish to demonstrate that the Koran is compatible with Jesus' teachings, then they will find a way to harmonize those statements. If they wish to emphasize the difference, then they will interpret the passage to contradict Jesus' teachings. If Muslims reject Jesus' teachings, then it is improper for Muslims to claim that the Bible (especially the New Testament)in any way supports Islam. You can not properly use the Bible to support something which actually contradicts it.
Amir said:
After we believe in Allah Almighty's previous Messages in His Gospel, then we must believe in the Noble Quran, Allah Almighty's Revelations to His Messenger Muhammad peace be upon him. Prophet Muhammad was the Seal of the Prophets, and he was sent to all of mankind.
This is interesting. I believe that a discussion of the prophecy in Isaiah will be an interesting topic, but unfortunately, I must run. I'll try to get back to this topic when I can.
Message Thread:
« Back to thread