Posted by Illuminati on 4/23/2009, 12:55 pm, in reply to "Re: Jesus(peace be upon him)"
97.123.10.58
Amir said:
So there we go. It is worth noting that the Quran does not mention any "Bible" or "Mathew", "Mark", "Genesis", "Numbers" etc. The Quran only mentions the Tauraat revealed to Musa (Moses) peace be upon him and the Injeel (Gospel) revealed to Esa (Jesus) peace be upon him. Not any Gospel "according to Mathew" etc. The Quran is MUHAYMIN over the previous scriptures (5:48), meaning criteria, watcher-over, control, guardian, dominant, trustworthy, witness, rectifying etc. So whatever agrees with the Quran we accept that we reject whatever disagrees with the Quran. The present day Jewish Christian scriptures may contain truth in them, we do not deny that, however their also contain the words of man and errors, interpolations and deletions. A Muslim is commanded to use the Quran as the judge (5:48) to separate the truth from falsehood.
I asked Amir if the Koran supports his claim that people have altered the Bible. He has quoted the hadiths, but has provided no evidence to support his position from the Koran. I am quite certain that if the Koran supported his theory, Amir would already have provided the sura.
Unless one is forthcoming, I believe it is safe to say that Amir's argument is not supported by the Koran. Since the Koran does recognize the validity of the previous writings, I must believe that probably Mohammad also recognized their validity.
This leads to my contention from the very beginning. Islam as we know it today is not directly based on the Koran, but is the product of the hadiths. At this point, I have deep doubts about the connection between modern Islam and the teachings of Mohammad. Modern Islam is b ased on sayings which were already 200 years old at the time they were collected and on Muslim traditions. Many generations had passed by the time the hadiths were collected.
Here is the passage I asked Amir to explain:
003.003
YUSUFALI: It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).
PICKTHAL: He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.
SHAKIR: He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Tavrat and the Injeel aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan.
According to this passage, Mohammad "confirmed" what had been given before. Obviously if the truth about Jesus had already been lost, there would have been nothing left to "confirm."
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