Posted by Illuminati on 4/23/2009, 7:53 am, in reply to "Re: Jesus(peace be upon him)"
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Amir said:
Of course me as a Muslim, I don't believe that the foul dirt that was put on Jesus' mouth or anything that exists in the NT is Divine. Again, as Allah Almighty Said
Jesus is totally irrational!!
If you do something wrong with your eye or hand, cut/pluck it off (Matthew 5:29-30, in a sexual context).
Marrying a divorced woman is adultery. (Matthew 5:32)
Don't plan for the future. (Matthew 6:34)
Don't save money. (Matthew 6:19-20)
Don't become wealthy. (Mark 10:21-25)
Sell everything and give it to the poor. (Luke 12:33)
Don't work to obtain food. (John 6:27)
Don't have sexual urges. (Matthew 5:28)
Make people want to persecute you. (Matthew 5:11)
If someone steals from you, don't try to get it back. (Luke 6:30)
If someone hits you, invite them to do it again. (Matthew 5:39)
If you lose a lawsuit, give more than the judgment. (Matthew 5:40)
If someone forces you to walk a mile, walk two miles. (Matthew 5:41)
If anyone asks you for anything, give it to them without question. (Matthew 5:42)
Amirs post about Jesus shows that he doesn't have even the slightest understanding of the message Jesus brought. Muslims claim to follow Jesus, but because of their disbelief they can not understand His message.
Intellectually, an honest person can read something which they don't believe and can understand the message contained in the words. However, in the case of Muslims, because of their deep prejudice and unbelief, the teachings of Jesus are forever closed from their minds.
This is the real tragedy of Islam. Muslims claim to follow Jesus, but they disobey Jesus' teachings. Many of the Muslims are probably completely sincere, but because Jesus' teachings don't support their own interpretation of the hadiths, and the Koran, they reject Jesus' teachings.
The question is why do Muslims even claim to obey Jesus when they reject Him? Because we know so little about the real person named Mohammad, we are left to guess what happened. My own take on Islam is that Mohammad himself, probably originally believed that his teachings were compatible with Jesus' teachings. However, when the Christians and Jews pointed out that Mohammad's teachings differ from what is written in the Bible, either Mohammad or his followers invented the theory that the Bible has been corrupted. I suspect that it is his followers who invented this theory so they don't have to obey the Bible.
Perhaps Amir can explain the following sura from the Koran:
003.003
YUSUFALI: It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).
PICKTHAL: He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.
SHAKIR: He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Tavrat and the Injeel aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan.
To me it seems that Mohammad respected the Bible and acknowledged its truthfulness. Did Mohammad, himself, ever claim that the followers of Jesus had put "foul dirt" into "Jesus' mouth?" I do not claim to be an authority on Mohammad, but I suspect this irreverent statement against the teachings of Jesus comes from a modern Muslims who have models his faith on the hadiths.
From my study, it appears that the main place in which Mohammad disagreed with the New Testament is about whether Jesus actually died on the cross or not. Even this disagreement may not be as significant as it first appears since most Christians probably believe that Jesus’ spirit survived the cross. I do believe that the theory that Judas was substituted for Jesus is incompatible with the Bible, but I wonder if it is in the Koran or is another saying from the hadiths?
I have a question for Amir. Because the Koran is not my holy book, it is possible that Mohammad supported Amir’s argument in the Koran. In light of the passage in which Mohammad supported the authenticity of the Bible, I’m curious. Amir, is there a passage in the Koran which supports your argument that the Bible has been changed by the Christians and the Jews? Please don’t quote Muslim tradition or hadiths. I want to know the actual teachings of the Koran itself.
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